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Forms
Submitted by Management 7/4/2012 3:48:00 PM {time} ago in Community Feedback
A thread to discuss Forms. Types, abilities, stats, etc. Anything related to Forms.
As forms can be configured (but not saved because of tempalte limitations) there is already a lot of flexibility.
The only thing that can not be changed is the Icon.
The idea of having a new form is really the idea of a new icon. Seven different kinds of forms in a game? Same as six but with a configurable icon.
As to form configurations: - We can change the attacks, EPH, Movement, defence, and attack percents. Lots of options already.
Forms are not affected by spells, though they used to be in the early beta. An option to have a form be subject to a suckerman would be very interesting perhaps, but I think it was eliminated because it weakened the form too much for the game.
THe origional philosophy was to set up a set of rules, like chess, that would not be changed and allow people to measure up. That philosophy can change but its up to you to have a position on it.
It would be good to be able to chagne the form icon, I have made games with rabbits, sticks, bears, clowns, etc.. which have wildly different statistics, but the icon is still te same, all I would change is an icon ability if you wanted a new type of form.
As to form abilities that are not yet configurable............ Maybe the only non-configurable thing right now is the amount of health lost when a forms fuel goes negative, being able to configure that would be beneficial. Currently its 20% loss, but there are reasons why we migth want toincrease or decrease it.
A few new games have been unlimited health, which cant be saved in a template, I have had to chagne every form that is called up every tick. Would be good ifyou could save that configuration, though it would be the same thing as setting forms to lose 0 health after it runs out of fuel.
-------Original Message-------
Management wrote:
A thread to discuss Forms. Types, abilities, stats, etc. Anything related to Forms.
I think we might want to change the forms being effected by spells thing. As it is, the game is just too focused on them. I'd like to bring them down a bit so that all strategic options become viable towards winning the game. And it's more about player skill instead of just having the best guns.
As for new forms, I approve. The mythos behind the game was set up in a manner that if new religions or forms needed to be brought in, they could be.
I specifically like the idea of adding in forms mimicking the Phoenix and Troll. Phoenix having the ability to return to life once after death. While the Troll has a health regen ability.
But, there are a slew of other ideas too. Mostly, it would be about adding in new abilities. In fact, it would be interesting if we could change the abilities of the current forms.
Give each form a set of potential abilities. Then pick from the list for the ability we want that form to have for the game. Or even better, let the players pick from a list when they generate the form at a temple. That way they can amass armies of forms with unique abilities.
Say we gave Magma Demon 3 different abilities to choose from. The standard upgrade to lessors, an ability that downgrades the opponent's lessors, and an ability that gives bonus F from winning.
Upon generation at a temple, the player is asked which ability they want their magma demon to have. They pick 1. Over time, they could amass several different magmas with different abilities. While this does boost the importance of having forms, I think that if we degraded their stats a bit or boosted the lessors enough and gave them even more options and cool stuff to have, it would help keep it balanced while adding variety and more tactical options to the game.
Lunar Savage
-------Original Message-------
BlueSky wrote: As forms can be configured (but not saved because of tempalte limitations) there is already a lot of flexibility.
The only thing that can not be changed is the Icon.
The idea of having a new form is really the idea of a new icon. Seven different kinds of forms in a game? Same as six but with a configurable icon.
As to form configurations: - We can change the attacks, EPH, Movement, defence, and attack percents. Lots of options already.
Forms are not affected by spells, though they used to be in the early beta. An option to have a form be subject to a suckerman would be very interesting perhaps, but I think it was eliminated because it weakened the form too much for the game.
THe origional philosophy was to set up a set of rules, like chess, that would not be changed and allow people to measure up. That philosophy can change but its up to you to have a position on it.
It would be good to be able to chagne the form icon, I have made games with rabbits, sticks, bears, clowns, etc.. which have wildly different statistics, but the icon is still te same, all I would change is an icon ability if you wanted a new type of form.
As to form abilities that are not yet configurable............ Maybe the only non-configurable thing right now is the amount of health lost when a forms fuel goes negative, being able to configure that would be beneficial. Currently its 20% loss, but there are reasons why we migth want toincrease or decrease it.
A few new games have been unlimited health, which cant be saved in a template, I have had to chagne every form that is called up every tick. Would be good ifyou could save that configuration, though it would be the same thing as setting forms to lose 0 health after it runs out of fuel.
-------Original Message-------
Management wrote:
A thread to discuss Forms. Types, abilities, stats, etc. Anything related to Forms.
OK - if we want to use spells on forms, it should take time and effort to get set up to do it.
How about adding another entity - the high priest or sorcerer? Just making stuff up here ...
You have to send 100 (?) lessors to a temple and "absorb" them. They stay there for 5 (?) ticks and now you can extract a high priest. You can move the high priest around the map, s/he looks like any other lessor.
In order to cast a spell on a form, you must have a high priest / sorcerer at an adjacent region. The potency of those spell s/he casts depends on the number of black betweens you have.
-------Original Message-------
Lunar Savage wrote: I think we might want to change the forms being effected by spells thing. As it is, the game is just too focused on them. I'd like to bring them down a bit so that all strategic options become viable towards winning the game. And it's more about player skill instead of just having the best guns.
As for new forms, I approve. The mythos behind the game was set up in a manner that if new religions or forms needed to be brought in, they could be.
I specifically like the idea of adding in forms mimicking the Phoenix and Troll. Phoenix having the ability to return to life once after death. While the Troll has a health regen ability.
But, there are a slew of other ideas too. Mostly, it would be about adding in new abilities. In fact, it would be interesting if we could change the abilities of the current forms.
Give each form a set of potential abilities. Then pick from the list for the ability we want that form to have for the game. Or even better, let the players pick from a list when they generate the form at a temple. That way they can amass armies of forms with unique abilities.
Say we gave Magma Demon 3 different abilities to choose from. The standard upgrade to lessors, an ability that downgrades the opponent's lessors, and an ability that gives bonus F from winning.
Upon generation at a temple, the player is asked which ability they want their magma demon to have. They pick 1. Over time, they could amass several different magmas with different abilities. While this does boost the importance of having forms, I think that if we degraded their stats a bit or boosted the lessors enough and gave them even more options and cool stuff to have, it would help keep it balanced while adding variety and more tactical options to the game.
Lunar Savage
-------Original Message-------
BlueSky wrote: As forms can be configured (but not saved because of tempalte limitations) there is already a lot of flexibility.
The only thing that can not be changed is the Icon.
The idea of having a new form is really the idea of a new icon. Seven different kinds of forms in a game? Same as six but with a configurable icon.
As to form configurations: - We can change the attacks, EPH, Movement, defence, and attack percents. Lots of options already.
Forms are not affected by spells, though they used to be in the early beta. An option to have a form be subject to a suckerman would be very interesting perhaps, but I think it was eliminated because it weakened the form too much for the game.
THe origional philosophy was to set up a set of rules, like chess, that would not be changed and allow people to measure up. That philosophy can change but its up to you to have a position on it.
It would be good to be able to chagne the form icon, I have made games with rabbits, sticks, bears, clowns, etc.. which have wildly different statistics, but the icon is still te same, all I would change is an icon ability if you wanted a new type of form.
As to form abilities that are not yet configurable............ Maybe the only non-configurable thing right now is the amount of health lost when a forms fuel goes negative, being able to configure that would be beneficial. Currently its 20% loss, but there are reasons why we migth want toincrease or decrease it.
A few new games have been unlimited health, which cant be saved in a template, I have had to chagne every form that is called up every tick. Would be good ifyou could save that configuration, though it would be the same thing as setting forms to lose 0 health after it runs out of fuel.
-------Original Message-------
Management wrote:
A thread to discuss Forms. Types, abilities, stats, etc. Anything related to Forms.
Why not have some spells work only on lessers, some only on forms, and some on both?
Heck, if you really wanted to overcomplicate the game, you could have spells that target specific KINDS of forms. Pacify reduces dragon OF to 30. Gas Leak drops Iron Hulk fuel to 0.
I don't suggest doing that. But it could be done. Making spells configurable and allowing game designers to set up available spells in each game would maximize variability and allow some game formats to cater to more casual players while others appeal to the grognards.
Narsham
-------Original Message-------
Lunar Savage wrote: I think we might want to change the forms being effected by spells thing. As it is, the game is just too focused on them. I'd like to bring them down a bit so that all strategic options become viable towards winning the game. And it's more about player skill instead of just having the best guns.
As for new forms, I approve. The mythos behind the game was set up in a manner that if new religions or forms needed to be brought in, they could be.
I specifically like the idea of adding in forms mimicking the Phoenix and Troll. Phoenix having the ability to return to life once after death. While the Troll has a health regen ability.
But, there are a slew of other ideas too. Mostly, it would be about adding in new abilities. In fact, it would be interesting if we could change the abilities of the current forms.
Give each form a set of potential abilities. Then pick from the list for the ability we want that form to have for the game. Or even better, let the players pick from a list when they generate the form at a temple. That way they can amass armies of forms with unique abilities.
Say we gave Magma Demon 3 different abilities to choose from. The standard upgrade to lessors, an ability that downgrades the opponent's lessors, and an ability that gives bonus F from winning.
Upon generation at a temple, the player is asked which ability they want their magma demon to have. They pick 1. Over time, they could amass several different magmas with different abilities. While this does boost the importance of having forms, I think that if we degraded their stats a bit or boosted the lessors enough and gave them even more options and cool stuff to have, it would help keep it balanced while adding variety and more tactical options to the game.
Lunar Savage
-------Original Message-------
BlueSky wrote: As forms can be configured (but not saved because of tempalte limitations) there is already a lot of flexibility.
The only thing that can not be changed is the Icon.
The idea of having a new form is really the idea of a new icon. Seven different kinds of forms in a game? Same as six but with a configurable icon.
As to form configurations: - We can change the attacks, EPH, Movement, defence, and attack percents. Lots of options already.
Forms are not affected by spells, though they used to be in the early beta. An option to have a form be subject to a suckerman would be very interesting perhaps, but I think it was eliminated because it weakened the form too much for the game.
THe origional philosophy was to set up a set of rules, like chess, that would not be changed and allow people to measure up. That philosophy can change but its up to you to have a position on it.
It would be good to be able to chagne the form icon, I have made games with rabbits, sticks, bears, clowns, etc.. which have wildly different statistics, but the icon is still te same, all I would change is an icon ability if you wanted a new type of form.
As to form abilities that are not yet configurable............ Maybe the only non-configurable thing right now is the amount of health lost when a forms fuel goes negative, being able to configure that would be beneficial. Currently its 20% loss, but there are reasons why we migth want toincrease or decrease it.
A few new games have been unlimited health, which cant be saved in a template, I have had to chagne every form that is called up every tick. Would be good ifyou could save that configuration, though it would be the same thing as setting forms to lose 0 health after it runs out of fuel.
-------Original Message-------
Management wrote:
A thread to discuss Forms. Types, abilities, stats, etc. Anything related to Forms.
We haven't yet personally dug into the game creation and templates interfaces yet, but quickly gathering that there is a lot of room for improvement in those areas.
For issues where it's just a matter of modifying the necessary interface (but not needing modification of the underlying database structure), those kinds of changes we can move higher up the priority list.
When it comes to configurable option, we agree. It is definitely our intention to make everything that can be made into a configuration into a configuration option.
-------Original Message-------
BlueSky wrote: As forms can be configured (but not saved because of tempalte limitations) there is already a lot of flexibility.
The only thing that can not be changed is the Icon.
The idea of having a new form is really the idea of a new icon. Seven different kinds of forms in a game? Same as six but with a configurable icon.
As to form configurations: - We can change the attacks, EPH, Movement, defence, and attack percents. Lots of options already.
Forms are not affected by spells, though they used to be in the early beta. An option to have a form be subject to a suckerman would be very interesting perhaps, but I think it was eliminated because it weakened the form too much for the game.
THe origional philosophy was to set up a set of rules, like chess, that would not be changed and allow people to measure up. That philosophy can change but its up to you to have a position on it.
It would be good to be able to chagne the form icon, I have made games with rabbits, sticks, bears, clowns, etc.. which have wildly different statistics, but the icon is still te same, all I would change is an icon ability if you wanted a new type of form.
As to form abilities that are not yet configurable............ Maybe the only non-configurable thing right now is the amount of health lost when a forms fuel goes negative, being able to configure that would be beneficial. Currently its 20% loss, but there are reasons why we migth want toincrease or decrease it.
A few new games have been unlimited health, which cant be saved in a template, I have had to chagne every form that is called up every tick. Would be good ifyou could save that configuration, though it would be the same thing as setting forms to lose 0 health after it runs out of fuel.
-------Original Message-------
Management wrote:
A thread to discuss Forms. Types, abilities, stats, etc. Anything related to Forms.
I agree. Make the easy stuff as you can and focus on more players....
The new stuff is only for the older players, new players wont know the difference..
-------Original Message-------
Management wrote:
We haven't yet personally dug into the game creation and templates interfaces yet, but quickly gathering that there is a lot of room for improvement in those areas.
For issues where it's just a matter of modifying the necessary interface (but not needing modification of the underlying database structure), those kinds of changes we can move higher up the priority list.
When it comes to configurable option, we agree. It is definitely our intention to make everything that can be made into a configuration into a configuration option.
-------Original Message-------
BlueSky wrote: As forms can be configured (but not saved because of tempalte limitations) there is already a lot of flexibility.
The only thing that can not be changed is the Icon.
The idea of having a new form is really the idea of a new icon. Seven different kinds of forms in a game? Same as six but with a configurable icon.
As to form configurations: - We can change the attacks, EPH, Movement, defence, and attack percents. Lots of options already.
Forms are not affected by spells, though they used to be in the early beta. An option to have a form be subject to a suckerman would be very interesting perhaps, but I think it was eliminated because it weakened the form too much for the game.
THe origional philosophy was to set up a set of rules, like chess, that would not be changed and allow people to measure up. That philosophy can change but its up to you to have a position on it.
It would be good to be able to chagne the form icon, I have made games with rabbits, sticks, bears, clowns, etc.. which have wildly different statistics, but the icon is still te same, all I would change is an icon ability if you wanted a new type of form.
As to form abilities that are not yet configurable............ Maybe the only non-configurable thing right now is the amount of health lost when a forms fuel goes negative, being able to configure that would be beneficial. Currently its 20% loss, but there are reasons why we migth want toincrease or decrease it.
A few new games have been unlimited health, which cant be saved in a template, I have had to chagne every form that is called up every tick. Would be good ifyou could save that configuration, though it would be the same thing as setting forms to lose 0 health after it runs out of fuel.
-------Original Message-------
Management wrote:
A thread to discuss Forms. Types, abilities, stats, etc. Anything related to Forms.
Yes! Get rid of the buggy stuff. Improve graphics. Artwork has been great - it needs to be a bigger part of the game (for newbies)
-------Original Message-------
BlueSky wrote: I agree. Make the easy stuff as you can and focus on more players....
The new stuff is only for the older players, new players wont know the difference..
-------Original Message-------
Management wrote:
We haven't yet personally dug into the game creation and templates interfaces yet, but quickly gathering that there is a lot of room for improvement in those areas.
For issues where it's just a matter of modifying the necessary interface (but not needing modification of the underlying database structure), those kinds of changes we can move higher up the priority list.
When it comes to configurable option, we agree. It is definitely our intention to make everything that can be made into a configuration into a configuration option.
-------Original Message-------
BlueSky wrote: As forms can be configured (but not saved because of tempalte limitations) there is already a lot of flexibility.
The only thing that can not be changed is the Icon.
The idea of having a new form is really the idea of a new icon. Seven different kinds of forms in a game? Same as six but with a configurable icon.
As to form configurations: - We can change the attacks, EPH, Movement, defence, and attack percents. Lots of options already.
Forms are not affected by spells, though they used to be in the early beta. An option to have a form be subject to a suckerman would be very interesting perhaps, but I think it was eliminated because it weakened the form too much for the game.
THe origional philosophy was to set up a set of rules, like chess, that would not be changed and allow people to measure up. That philosophy can change but its up to you to have a position on it.
It would be good to be able to chagne the form icon, I have made games with rabbits, sticks, bears, clowns, etc.. which have wildly different statistics, but the icon is still te same, all I would change is an icon ability if you wanted a new type of form.
As to form abilities that are not yet configurable............ Maybe the only non-configurable thing right now is the amount of health lost when a forms fuel goes negative, being able to configure that would be beneficial. Currently its 20% loss, but there are reasons why we migth want toincrease or decrease it.
A few new games have been unlimited health, which cant be saved in a template, I have had to chagne every form that is called up every tick. Would be good ifyou could save that configuration, though it would be the same thing as setting forms to lose 0 health after it runs out of fuel.
-------Original Message-------
Management wrote:
A thread to discuss Forms. Types, abilities, stats, etc. Anything related to Forms.
I believe making more forms would be fun, but building your own forms in a form building place would be even better. Have different values for cost of each form along the scales of EPH, max health, size, attack,defense. If players could have preset forms assigned before games to two or three of there predesigns it would even add new diversity of strategy in the gameplay.
G360
-------Original Message-------
Management wrote:
A thread to discuss Forms. Types, abilities, stats, etc. Anything related to Forms.
You just want to build a large mutated lizard that terrorizes Japanese people and takes to the deep water for R&R.
-------Original Message-------
Godzilla360 wrote: I believe making more forms would be fun, but building your own forms in a form building place would be even better. Have different values for cost of each form along the scales of EPH, max health, size, attack,defense. If players could have preset forms assigned before games to two or three of there predesigns it would even add new diversity of strategy in the gameplay.
G360
-------Original Message-------
Management wrote:
A thread to discuss Forms. Types, abilities, stats, etc. Anything related to Forms.
Your darn right. Id have them everywhere. Special ability, amber dragon slap or magma demon stomp down.
G360
-------Original Message-------
old_ugly wrote: You just want to build a large mutated lizard that terrorizes Japanese people and takes to the deep water for R&R.
-------Original Message-------
Godzilla360 wrote: I believe making more forms would be fun, but building your own forms in a form building place would be even better. Have different values for cost of each form along the scales of EPH, max health, size, attack,defense. If players could have preset forms assigned before games to two or three of there predesigns it would even add new diversity of strategy in the gameplay.
G360
-------Original Message-------
Management wrote:
A thread to discuss Forms. Types, abilities, stats, etc. Anything related to Forms.
It's okay, I want to do the same damn thing.
<3 the BigG. :D
I can't wait to see what Legendary does with the new movie.
I just hope they get it out there before 2014. Because Toho will kick their ass with their own movie. xD ...then again, 2 Godzilla movies in the same year? YES PLEASE.
Lunar Savage
-------Original Message-------
Godzilla360 wrote: Your darn right. Id have them everywhere. Special ability, amber dragon slap or magma demon stomp down.
G360
-------Original Message-------
old_ugly wrote: You just want to build a large mutated lizard that terrorizes Japanese people and takes to the deep water for R&R.
-------Original Message-------
Godzilla360 wrote: I believe making more forms would be fun, but building your own forms in a form building place would be even better. Have different values for cost of each form along the scales of EPH, max health, size, attack,defense. If players could have preset forms assigned before games to two or three of there predesigns it would even add new diversity of strategy in the gameplay.
G360
-------Original Message-------
Management wrote:
A thread to discuss Forms. Types, abilities, stats, etc. Anything related to Forms.
Of the wall thoughts here. I know there's a but of problems/challenges with them, but these came into my head and I have to get them out.
Somewhere else, I talked about creating risk that your lessers would "go native".
And others have been talking about spells that work on forms.
Here's a thought, IF you could use a spell on a form (e.g. one that would override movement order): - the spell would have a reasonably low probability of success (<50%) - if the spell is successful, in order for the form to "disobey" it's master, it goes native, meaning it doesn't really obey you either. - in future ticks, nobody controls the form - everybody is at risk of being attacked by it. - a subsequent spell that is successful (may) convert the native form to be owned by the spell caster.
Forms are big scary things. Trying to mess with them by casting spells has to be a big scary (risky) proposition.
Another thought (that I think I mentioned elsewhere) - instead of using F to cast the spell, you might offer up a large number of lessers as a sacrifice to the form. - The sacrifice needs to be in a region adjacent to where the Form "ends up", not necessarily where it is. (increase the chances of missing) - The sacrifice is processed after battle - meaning your lessers may be all killed in a battle and never offered to the form (again, increases the chances of missing, maybe chance of success = f(number of lessers) ). - There is a limited chance the form will accept the sacrifice. If it doesn't, all of the lessers offered for sacrifice go native. (They don't like the fact you offered them up. It increases the risk associated with trying). If it does, the form moves to the region the lessers are at (that means, the form may have moved two regions in one turn) and consumes them, and becomes a native form.
There, it's out of my head and it doesn't hurt so much.
-------Original Message-------
Management wrote:
A thread to discuss Forms. Types, abilities, stats, etc. Anything related to Forms.
Instead of all of this hard stuff, why not simply a spell to go native cast by an opponent on your forces... All of your forces, whatever they are..
Worse than a BB trap.. Imagine, a stack of 6 colossa, and for the cost of a simple vision nerve, voila, they are native and attacking everything in sight!!
Oops, they killed the caster since one still came on in that elim game...
-------Original Message-------
old_ugly wrote: Of the wall thoughts here. I know there's a but of problems/challenges with them, but these came into my head and I have to get them out.
Somewhere else, I talked about creating risk that your lessers would "go native".
And others have been talking about spells that work on forms.
Here's a thought, IF you could use a spell on a form (e.g. one that would override movement order): - the spell would have a reasonably low probability of success (<50%) - if the spell is successful, in order for the form to "disobey" it's master, it goes native, meaning it doesn't really obey you either. - in future ticks, nobody controls the form - everybody is at risk of being attacked by it. - a subsequent spell that is successful (may) convert the native form to be owned by the spell caster.
Forms are big scary things. Trying to mess with them by casting spells has to be a big scary (risky) proposition.
Another thought (that I think I mentioned elsewhere) - instead of using F to cast the spell, you might offer up a large number of lessers as a sacrifice to the form. - The sacrifice needs to be in a region adjacent to where the Form "ends up", not necessarily where it is. (increase the chances of missing) - The sacrifice is processed after battle - meaning your lessers may be all killed in a battle and never offered to the form (again, increases the chances of missing, maybe chance of success = f(number of lessers) ). - There is a limited chance the form will accept the sacrifice. If it doesn't, all of the lessers offered for sacrifice go native. (They don't like the fact you offered them up. It increases the risk associated with trying). If it does, the form moves to the region the lessers are at (that means, the form may have moved two regions in one turn) and consumes them, and becomes a native form.
There, it's out of my head and it doesn't hurt so much.
-------Original Message-------
Management wrote:
A thread to discuss Forms. Types, abilities, stats, etc. Anything related to Forms.
I said it was making my head hurt.
But I like the idea of native forms wandering the board. And there's a limited life span, depending on how much health the form has.
-------Original Message-------
BlueSky wrote: Instead of all of this hard stuff, why not simply a spell to go native cast by an opponent on your forces... All of your forces, whatever they are..
Worse than a BB trap.. Imagine, a stack of 6 colossa, and for the cost of a simple vision nerve, voila, they are native and attacking everything in sight!!
Oops, they killed the caster since one still came on in that elim game...
-------Original Message-------
old_ugly wrote: Of the wall thoughts here. I know there's a but of problems/challenges with them, but these came into my head and I have to get them out.
Somewhere else, I talked about creating risk that your lessers would "go native".
And others have been talking about spells that work on forms.
Here's a thought, IF you could use a spell on a form (e.g. one that would override movement order): - the spell would have a reasonably low probability of success (<50%) - if the spell is successful, in order for the form to "disobey" it's master, it goes native, meaning it doesn't really obey you either. - in future ticks, nobody controls the form - everybody is at risk of being attacked by it. - a subsequent spell that is successful (may) convert the native form to be owned by the spell caster.
Forms are big scary things. Trying to mess with them by casting spells has to be a big scary (risky) proposition.
Another thought (that I think I mentioned elsewhere) - instead of using F to cast the spell, you might offer up a large number of lessers as a sacrifice to the form. - The sacrifice needs to be in a region adjacent to where the Form "ends up", not necessarily where it is. (increase the chances of missing) - The sacrifice is processed after battle - meaning your lessers may be all killed in a battle and never offered to the form (again, increases the chances of missing, maybe chance of success = f(number of lessers) ). - There is a limited chance the form will accept the sacrifice. If it doesn't, all of the lessers offered for sacrifice go native. (They don't like the fact you offered them up. It increases the risk associated with trying). If it does, the form moves to the region the lessers are at (that means, the form may have moved two regions in one turn) and consumes them, and becomes a native form.
There, it's out of my head and it doesn't hurt so much.
-------Original Message-------
Management wrote:
A thread to discuss Forms. Types, abilities, stats, etc. Anything related to Forms.
Coding the native forms will be quite the task. Though I'd absolutely 100% love to see it.
The last time we had anything remotely resembling native forms, the A.I. wound up making them all move north. And wouldn't do anything else. :/
Lunar Savage
-------Original Message-------
old_ugly wrote: I said it was making my head hurt.
But I like the idea of native forms wandering the board. And there's a limited life span, depending on how much health the form has.
-------Original Message-------
BlueSky wrote: Instead of all of this hard stuff, why not simply a spell to go native cast by an opponent on your forces... All of your forces, whatever they are..
Worse than a BB trap.. Imagine, a stack of 6 colossa, and for the cost of a simple vision nerve, voila, they are native and attacking everything in sight!!
Oops, they killed the caster since one still came on in that elim game...
-------Original Message-------
old_ugly wrote: Of the wall thoughts here. I know there's a but of problems/challenges with them, but these came into my head and I have to get them out.
Somewhere else, I talked about creating risk that your lessers would "go native".
And others have been talking about spells that work on forms.
Here's a thought, IF you could use a spell on a form (e.g. one that would override movement order): - the spell would have a reasonably low probability of success (<50%) - if the spell is successful, in order for the form to "disobey" it's master, it goes native, meaning it doesn't really obey you either. - in future ticks, nobody controls the form - everybody is at risk of being attacked by it. - a subsequent spell that is successful (may) convert the native form to be owned by the spell caster.
Forms are big scary things. Trying to mess with them by casting spells has to be a big scary (risky) proposition.
Another thought (that I think I mentioned elsewhere) - instead of using F to cast the spell, you might offer up a large number of lessers as a sacrifice to the form. - The sacrifice needs to be in a region adjacent to where the Form "ends up", not necessarily where it is. (increase the chances of missing) - The sacrifice is processed after battle - meaning your lessers may be all killed in a battle and never offered to the form (again, increases the chances of missing, maybe chance of success = f(number of lessers) ). - There is a limited chance the form will accept the sacrifice. If it doesn't, all of the lessers offered for sacrifice go native. (They don't like the fact you offered them up. It increases the risk associated with trying). If it does, the form moves to the region the lessers are at (that means, the form may have moved two regions in one turn) and consumes them, and becomes a native form.
There, it's out of my head and it doesn't hurt so much.
-------Original Message-------
Management wrote:
A thread to discuss Forms. Types, abilities, stats, etc. Anything related to Forms.
The native sacrifice is very much like the raw knuckle spell...
Conside that only 260 crusaders with a raw knuckle can kill a colossa. If the "sacrifice" is not accepted, they run away right now..
-------Original Message-------
old_ugly wrote: Of the wall thoughts here. I know there's a but of problems/challenges with them, but these came into my head and I have to get them out.
Somewhere else, I talked about creating risk that your lessers would "go native".
And others have been talking about spells that work on forms.
Here's a thought, IF you could use a spell on a form (e.g. one that would override movement order): - the spell would have a reasonably low probability of success (<50%) - if the spell is successful, in order for the form to "disobey" it's master, it goes native, meaning it doesn't really obey you either. - in future ticks, nobody controls the form - everybody is at risk of being attacked by it. - a subsequent spell that is successful (may) convert the native form to be owned by the spell caster.
Forms are big scary things. Trying to mess with them by casting spells has to be a big scary (risky) proposition.
Another thought (that I think I mentioned elsewhere) - instead of using F to cast the spell, you might offer up a large number of lessers as a sacrifice to the form. - The sacrifice needs to be in a region adjacent to where the Form "ends up", not necessarily where it is. (increase the chances of missing) - The sacrifice is processed after battle - meaning your lessers may be all killed in a battle and never offered to the form (again, increases the chances of missing, maybe chance of success = f(number of lessers) ). - There is a limited chance the form will accept the sacrifice. If it doesn't, all of the lessers offered for sacrifice go native. (They don't like the fact you offered them up. It increases the risk associated with trying). If it does, the form moves to the region the lessers are at (that means, the form may have moved two regions in one turn) and consumes them, and becomes a native form.
There, it's out of my head and it doesn't hurt so much.
-------Original Message-------
Management wrote:
A thread to discuss Forms. Types, abilities, stats, etc. Anything related to Forms.
Schooled by BlueSky 8)
I pretty much avoid the Raw Knuckle because it's a low percentage desperate move ... which is kind of the point.
Anyway, I didn't think of that - and I will next time.
-------Original Message-------
BlueSky wrote: The native sacrifice is very much like the raw knuckle spell...
Conside that only 260 crusaders with a raw knuckle can kill a colossa. If the "sacrifice" is not accepted, they run away right now..
-------Original Message-------
old_ugly wrote: Of the wall thoughts here. I know there's a but of problems/challenges with them, but these came into my head and I have to get them out.
Somewhere else, I talked about creating risk that your lessers would "go native".
And others have been talking about spells that work on forms.
Here's a thought, IF you could use a spell on a form (e.g. one that would override movement order): - the spell would have a reasonably low probability of success (<50%) - if the spell is successful, in order for the form to "disobey" it's master, it goes native, meaning it doesn't really obey you either. - in future ticks, nobody controls the form - everybody is at risk of being attacked by it. - a subsequent spell that is successful (may) convert the native form to be owned by the spell caster.
Forms are big scary things. Trying to mess with them by casting spells has to be a big scary (risky) proposition.
Another thought (that I think I mentioned elsewhere) - instead of using F to cast the spell, you might offer up a large number of lessers as a sacrifice to the form. - The sacrifice needs to be in a region adjacent to where the Form "ends up", not necessarily where it is. (increase the chances of missing) - The sacrifice is processed after battle - meaning your lessers may be all killed in a battle and never offered to the form (again, increases the chances of missing, maybe chance of success = f(number of lessers) ). - There is a limited chance the form will accept the sacrifice. If it doesn't, all of the lessers offered for sacrifice go native. (They don't like the fact you offered them up. It increases the risk associated with trying). If it does, the form moves to the region the lessers are at (that means, the form may have moved two regions in one turn) and consumes them, and becomes a native form.
There, it's out of my head and it doesn't hurt so much.
-------Original Message-------
Management wrote:
A thread to discuss Forms. Types, abilities, stats, etc. Anything related to Forms.
I saw it used in one of the recent games, it worked like five times in a row...
-------Original Message-------
old_ugly wrote: Schooled by BlueSky 8)
I pretty much avoid the Raw Knuckle because it's a low percentage desperate move ... which is kind of the point.
Anyway, I didn't think of that - and I will next time.
-------Original Message-------
BlueSky wrote: The native sacrifice is very much like the raw knuckle spell...
Conside that only 260 crusaders with a raw knuckle can kill a colossa. If the "sacrifice" is not accepted, they run away right now..
-------Original Message-------
old_ugly wrote: Of the wall thoughts here. I know there's a but of problems/challenges with them, but these came into my head and I have to get them out.
Somewhere else, I talked about creating risk that your lessers would "go native".
And others have been talking about spells that work on forms.
Here's a thought, IF you could use a spell on a form (e.g. one that would override movement order): - the spell would have a reasonably low probability of success (<50%) - if the spell is successful, in order for the form to "disobey" it's master, it goes native, meaning it doesn't really obey you either. - in future ticks, nobody controls the form - everybody is at risk of being attacked by it. - a subsequent spell that is successful (may) convert the native form to be owned by the spell caster.
Forms are big scary things. Trying to mess with them by casting spells has to be a big scary (risky) proposition.
Another thought (that I think I mentioned elsewhere) - instead of using F to cast the spell, you might offer up a large number of lessers as a sacrifice to the form. - The sacrifice needs to be in a region adjacent to where the Form "ends up", not necessarily where it is. (increase the chances of missing) - The sacrifice is processed after battle - meaning your lessers may be all killed in a battle and never offered to the form (again, increases the chances of missing, maybe chance of success = f(number of lessers) ). - There is a limited chance the form will accept the sacrifice. If it doesn't, all of the lessers offered for sacrifice go native. (They don't like the fact you offered them up. It increases the risk associated with trying). If it does, the form moves to the region the lessers are at (that means, the form may have moved two regions in one turn) and consumes them, and becomes a native form.
There, it's out of my head and it doesn't hurt so much.
-------Original Message-------
Management wrote:
A thread to discuss Forms. Types, abilities, stats, etc. Anything related to Forms.
More hair brained ideas.
What if you could sacrifice (convert) your form into lessers - the number determined by the form's experience.
So your black dragon has flown deep into your opponents territory, gaining 600 experience points on the way. Then you sacrifice your form and distribute 600 lessers throughout.
-------Original Message-------
Management wrote:
A thread to discuss Forms. Types, abilities, stats, etc. Anything related to Forms.
Reading part of the discussion between Lunar and BlueSky concerning F and T made me suddenly think of this option:
What if forms couldn't capture regions?
Allow lessers to be transported by forms, so you could load 10 lessers onto a dragon to capture a mountain region.
But if the lessers don't move, or if they die, the forms have to wait until more lessers arrive to continue advancing.
I do think forms need to be rebalanced with lessers, ideally to make forms less effective than they are presently. The loss in F income which the game was originally taking as a tradeoff in using forms over lessers simply doesn't exist with fury farming, and short of a complete overhaul of the fury mechanic, I don't see any way to put an end to fury farming that doesn't make fury easier to generate in other ways.
Narsham
-------Original Message-------
Management wrote:
A thread to discuss Forms. Types, abilities, stats, etc. Anything related to Forms.
Very intersting... It can really add a dynamic...
-------Original Message-------
Narsham wrote: Reading part of the discussion between Lunar and BlueSky concerning F and T made me suddenly think of this option:
What if forms couldn't capture regions?
Allow lessers to be transported by forms, so you could load 10 lessers onto a dragon to capture a mountain region.
But if the lessers don't move, or if they die, the forms have to wait until more lessers arrive to continue advancing.
I do think forms need to be rebalanced with lessers, ideally to make forms less effective than they are presently. The loss in F income which the game was originally taking as a tradeoff in using forms over lessers simply doesn't exist with fury farming, and short of a complete overhaul of the fury mechanic, I don't see any way to put an end to fury farming that doesn't make fury easier to generate in other ways.
Narsham
-------Original Message-------
Management wrote:
A thread to discuss Forms. Types, abilities, stats, etc. Anything related to Forms.
Hm...good idea.
Lunar Savage
-------Original Message-------
BlueSky wrote: Very intersting... It can really add a dynamic...
-------Original Message-------
Narsham wrote: Reading part of the discussion between Lunar and BlueSky concerning F and T made me suddenly think of this option:
What if forms couldn't capture regions?
Allow lessers to be transported by forms, so you could load 10 lessers onto a dragon to capture a mountain region.
But if the lessers don't move, or if they die, the forms have to wait until more lessers arrive to continue advancing.
I do think forms need to be rebalanced with lessers, ideally to make forms less effective than they are presently. The loss in F income which the game was originally taking as a tradeoff in using forms over lessers simply doesn't exist with fury farming, and short of a complete overhaul of the fury mechanic, I don't see any way to put an end to fury farming that doesn't make fury easier to generate in other ways.
Narsham
-------Original Message-------
Management wrote:
A thread to discuss Forms. Types, abilities, stats, etc. Anything related to Forms.
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