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Community Feedback
We're listening. For players who wish to have a voice in the future of Evernight, this is the place to talk to management. This is the newsgroup we'll be actively monitoring on a daily basis.
Doubts
Submitted by Cortex 2/23/2013 8:20:00 AM {time} ago in Community Feedback
I will be honest, for what it's worth, I have doubts that the latest take-over and current remodeling of EN will revitalize the game. The game, at its core, is lacking a self-sustainable community, arguably much worse then outdated technology. My point is that any major and costly advertizements are a risky investment when the new technology, the new features and the vibrant community are lacking. A wiki, a forum and the overall possibility to generate content by the user is key here. That content and this community should not resolve solely around the game EN. A person should browse to EverNight for many reasons but the main reason would be to satisfy his need to socialize. Between the news of the actual take-over and now anything of the above is lacking. A few suggestions. - A forum with many non-related EN sub-fora and a couple of those sub-fora dedicated to other games. A person who happens to be a MineCraft player might be tempted to visit the Minecraft sub-forum if he considers it one of 'the places to be' for Minecraft. Subfora can be created for countless topics and if done right it allows for creating subcommunities within the over-arching EN community. - A wiki which contains, besides other content, a personal profile for each and evry player and forum user which grants the player the ability to create and roleplay his character to great detail. - Roleplaying entities (a EN Pub, Guilds, factions, Teams) with corresponding profile pages. - wiki page for map creation and sharing - Teaching and Learning Center. An EN based code repository and services on how to migrate from Classic ASP to ASP MVC x.x with code exmaples, code contributions and tutorials backed up by volunteers. Or as another example, the conversion from C++ to C#. Or any other technology EN uses or will use. In the end a person on the Internet should be able to 'bookmark' EN for many reasons and, imo, the game itself does not have to be the main reason. Lastly, which I have probably mentioned too many times already, is the importance for EN to remodel itself towards EN chess where daily ticks are avoided, and by implementing EN Chess, pulls EN from the suffocating niche of 24h tick based games. A few things have to be implemented before EN Chess (or any other word) would work. Such as ; - a dynamic countdown timer within the game - automatic re-entering the runnung game without hitting refresh to track the start of the new tick - smaller maps and a new non-procurable region to reduce clicking actions and micro-management - New leaderboards specific to 1v1, random 2v2, random 3v3, random 2v2v2, preset 2v2, preset 3v3 and so forth, with an ELO-system or Starcraft I en II Division system. And the actual lastly, I have a suggestion to lessen and avoid the permanent rage-quits by disgruntled players. Yes, the actual and official EN Codex along with a reviewing and penalty system. It would be a good idea to start it now. Heck, if we had started 6 months ago we would have outdone many a legislative systems. The key to this longwinded post is that Im very much able to waste my time, for free, on anything related to EN but I still have not been given the opportunity todo so. This is starting to get frustrating onsidering I offered my help way back in 2001 to Phiasco and subsequent managers after that and all responded with the same saying 'We will get back to you on that as soon as possible'. Cortex.
Thanks again Cortex, we like your ideas here.
Actually, for the most part, we are more or less on the same page with many of these ideas.
We know that technical modernization in and of itself isn’t the key to revitalizing EN. But it is a necessary first step to enabling implementation of the ideas that are keys to revitalizing EN.
There is no shortage a great ideas, the primary showstopper problem to implementing them is, quite frankly, that the existing code is extremely hostile to making manageable modifications & changes. The code, game play rules, UI rendering, server logic, etc. is scattered across hundreds of .asp files, hundreds of SQL stored procedures, and a dozen or so standalone compiled .dlls and .exes. and all mashed together like an all-day crock pot stew.
Making changes to the existing game code is like trying to change the stew recipe, after the stew has already been cooked.
Anyway, getting back to your suggestions, we completely agree that a vibrant community is the key. We also agree that a central piece to a vibrant community is a vibrant forums/wiki/blog where the content and direction is mostly driven by the players. All of which are on the drawing board.
Also, it is our intent to make all of the site’s content, forums/wiki/blogs/browsing the games/etc. publicly accessible for direct bookmarking, browsing, and search engine crawling, with or without being logged in.
And yes, we are also interested in exploring, and we have discussed, ideas for expanding the game outside of the 24h tick structure. Although at this moment, it’s way early to focus too much energy on this direction. It’s time for discussion will come, but right now there are far too many higher priority issues to be addressed.
Also, as I already mentioned in my reply to your previous post, we are looking into options for moving the project into a collaborative development environment to enable manageable outside contributions.
-T
-------Original Message-------
Cortex wrote: I will be honest, for what it's worth, I have doubts that the latest take-over and current remodeling of EN will revitalize the game. The game, at its core, is lacking a self-sustainable community, arguably much worse then outdated technology. My point is that any major and costly advertizements are a risky investment when the new technology, the new features and the vibrant community are lacking.
A wiki, a forum and the overall possibility to generate content by the user is key here. That content and this community should not resolve solely around the game EN. A person should browse to EverNight for many reasons but the main reason would be to satisfy his need to socialize. Between the news of the actual take-over and now anything of the above is lacking.
A few suggestions.
- A forum with many non-related EN sub-fora and a couple of those sub-fora dedicated to other games. A person who happens to be a MineCraft player might be tempted to visit the Minecraft sub-forum if he considers it one of 'the places to be' for Minecraft. Subfora can be created for countless topics and if done right it allows for creating subcommunities within the over-arching EN community.
- A wiki which contains, besides other content, a personal profile for each and evry player and forum user which grants the player the ability to create and roleplay his character to great detail.
- Roleplaying entities (a EN Pub, Guilds, factions, Teams) with corresponding profile pages.
- wiki page for map creation and sharing
- Teaching and Learning Center. An EN based code repository and services on how to migrate from Classic ASP to ASP MVC x.x with code exmaples, code contributions and tutorials backed up by volunteers. Or as another example, the conversion from C++ to C#. Or any other technology EN uses or will use.
In the end a person on the Internet should be able to 'bookmark' EN for many reasons and, imo, the game itself does not have to be the main reason.
Lastly, which I have probably mentioned too many times already, is the importance for EN to remodel itself towards EN chess where daily ticks are avoided, and by implementing EN Chess, pulls EN from the suffocating niche of 24h tick based games.
A few things have to be implemented before EN Chess (or any other word) would work. Such as ;
- a dynamic countdown timer within the game - automatic re-entering the runnung game without hitting refresh to track the start of the new tick - smaller maps and a new non-procurable region to reduce clicking actions and micro-management - New leaderboards specific to 1v1, random 2v2, random 3v3, random 2v2v2, preset 2v2, preset 3v3 and so forth, with an ELO-system or Starcraft I en II Division system.
And the actual lastly, I have a suggestion to lessen and avoid the permanent rage-quits by disgruntled players. Yes, the actual and official EN Codex along with a reviewing and penalty system. It would be a good idea to start it now. Heck, if we had started 6 months ago we would have outdone many a legislative systems.
The key to this longwinded post is that Im very much able to waste my time, for free, on anything related to EN but I still have not been given the opportunity todo so. This is starting to get frustrating onsidering I offered my help way back in 2001 to Phiasco and subsequent managers after that and all responded with the same saying 'We will get back to you on that as soon as possible'.
Cortex.
I'd like to comment on this:
<< [i]Making changes to the existing game code is like trying to change the stew recipe, after the stew has already been cooked.[/i]>>
Temptations and I are NOT tryng to "make changes". We are re-writing the game.
- Game Logic and rules are being removed from the "over cooked" spaghetti UI and isolated for further usage and manipulation. This has been done on significant parts of the game already. - The SQL stored procedures are being reviewed and updated if necessary. We have added addtional data tables for better game tracking and stats, player profiles, and UI support.
- The Dlls are being re-wriiten. One biggie has already been attempted and was successful. Yeah!
- the list goes on....
This process takes time and we wish we had more of it :( As Temptations has previously mentioned, we are seriously considering the idea of creating a collaborative environment to get additional help. This is not easy since our internal network is used for many other projects.
We are very eager to get some of the re-written parts of Evernight pushed out for beta testing so you can see the results of our efforts.
Glaxono
Cloud storage and the ability to create secure project sites abound... No need to keep the test environment local... I like the idea of keeping some 24 hour ticking and not moving completely away from it. That is part of the draw, something I do not have to keep focus on in order to be effective (well, my last few games would be "mildly effective") ... I'd love to have a steady base to look at building a phone app for EN. That would be the way IMNSHO to get the game back out there. Focus on stability and playability and pretty it up a little then get an app out there...
-------Original Message-------
glaxono wrote:
I'd like to comment on this:
<< [i]Making changes to the existing game code is like trying to change the stew recipe, after the stew has already been cooked.[/i]>>
Temptations and I are NOT tryng to "make changes". We are re-writing the game.
- Game Logic and rules are being removed from the "over cooked" spaghetti UI and isolated for further usage and manipulation. This has been done on significant parts of the game already.
- The SQL stored procedures are being reviewed and updated if necessary. We have added addtional data tables for better game tracking and stats, player profiles, and UI support.
- The Dlls are being re-wriiten. One biggie has already been attempted and was successful. Yeah!
- the list goes on....
This process takes time and we wish we had more of it :( As Temptations has previously mentioned, we are seriously considering the idea of creating a collaborative environment to get additional help. This is not easy since our internal network is used for many other projects.
We are very eager to get some of the re-written parts of Evernight pushed out for beta testing so you can see the results of our efforts.
Glaxono
Cloud $$$?
-------Original Message-------
NoRegrets wrote: Cloud storage and the ability to create secure project sites abound... No need to keep the test environment local... I like the idea of keeping some 24 hour ticking and not moving completely away from it. That is part of the draw, something I do not have to keep focus on in order to be effective (well, my last few games would be "mildly effective") ... I'd love to have a steady base to look at building a phone app for EN. That would be the way IMNSHO to get the game back out there. Focus on stability and playability and pretty it up a little then get an app out there...
-------Original Message-------
glaxono wrote:
I'd like to comment on this:
<< [i]Making changes to the existing game code is like trying to change the stew recipe, after the stew has already been cooked.[/i]>>
Temptations and I are NOT tryng to "make changes". We are re-writing the game.
- Game Logic and rules are being removed from the "over cooked" spaghetti UI and isolated for further usage and manipulation. This has been done on significant parts of the game already.
- The SQL stored procedures are being reviewed and updated if necessary. We have added addtional data tables for better game tracking and stats, player profiles, and UI support.
- The Dlls are being re-wriiten. One biggie has already been attempted and was successful. Yeah!
- the list goes on....
This process takes time and we wish we had more of it :( As Temptations has previously mentioned, we are seriously considering the idea of creating a collaborative environment to get additional help. This is not easy since our internal network is used for many other projects.
We are very eager to get some of the re-written parts of Evernight pushed out for beta testing so you can see the results of our efforts.
Glaxono
Cost really depends on bandwidth requirements... The platform set up is negligible in cost and time. I'm certain I can get best cost from him for bandwidth if it is something you all are interested in pursuing.
My buddy owns an ISP. We do a LOT of virtual machines, run phone banks and from 2 to 1000 virtual desktops in several different iterations. A fairly massive amount of computational power and extremely hispeed stuff, sits on an ATT backbone.
-------Original Message-------
BlueSky wrote: Cloud $$$?
-------Original Message-------
NoRegrets wrote: Cloud storage and the ability to create secure project sites abound... No need to keep the test environment local... I like the idea of keeping some 24 hour ticking and not moving completely away from it. That is part of the draw, something I do not have to keep focus on in order to be effective (well, my last few games would be "mildly effective") ... I'd love to have a steady base to look at building a phone app for EN. That would be the way IMNSHO to get the game back out there. Focus on stability and playability and pretty it up a little then get an app out there...
-------Original Message-------
glaxono wrote:
I'd like to comment on this:
<< [i]Making changes to the existing game code is like trying to change the stew recipe, after the stew has already been cooked.[/i]>>
Temptations and I are NOT tryng to "make changes". We are re-writing the game.
- Game Logic and rules are being removed from the "over cooked" spaghetti UI and isolated for further usage and manipulation. This has been done on significant parts of the game already.
- The SQL stored procedures are being reviewed and updated if necessary. We have added addtional data tables for better game tracking and stats, player profiles, and UI support.
- The Dlls are being re-wriiten. One biggie has already been attempted and was successful. Yeah!
- the list goes on....
This process takes time and we wish we had more of it :( As Temptations has previously mentioned, we are seriously considering the idea of creating a collaborative environment to get additional help. This is not easy since our internal network is used for many other projects.
We are very eager to get some of the re-written parts of Evernight pushed out for beta testing so you can see the results of our efforts.
Glaxono
Without the in, cloud $ are usually a lot more expensive than if you had your own infrastructure...
But on a stand alone basis, if you dinna have an infastructure, cloud surely is an option...
-------Original Message-------
NoRegrets wrote: Cost really depends on bandwidth requirements... The platform set up is negligible in cost and time. I'm certain I can get best cost from him for bandwidth if it is something you all are interested in pursuing.
My buddy owns an ISP. We do a LOT of virtual machines, run phone banks and from 2 to 1000 virtual desktops in several different iterations. A fairly massive amount of computational power and extremely hispeed stuff, sits on an ATT backbone.
-------Original Message-------
BlueSky wrote: Cloud $$$?
-------Original Message-------
NoRegrets wrote: Cloud storage and the ability to create secure project sites abound... No need to keep the test environment local... I like the idea of keeping some 24 hour ticking and not moving completely away from it. That is part of the draw, something I do not have to keep focus on in order to be effective (well, my last few games would be "mildly effective") ... I'd love to have a steady base to look at building a phone app for EN. That would be the way IMNSHO to get the game back out there. Focus on stability and playability and pretty it up a little then get an app out there...
-------Original Message-------
glaxono wrote:
I'd like to comment on this:
<< [i]Making changes to the existing game code is like trying to change the stew recipe, after the stew has already been cooked.[/i]>>
Temptations and I are NOT tryng to "make changes". We are re-writing the game.
- Game Logic and rules are being removed from the "over cooked" spaghetti UI and isolated for further usage and manipulation. This has been done on significant parts of the game already.
- The SQL stored procedures are being reviewed and updated if necessary. We have added addtional data tables for better game tracking and stats, player profiles, and UI support.
- The Dlls are being re-wriiten. One biggie has already been attempted and was successful. Yeah!
- the list goes on....
This process takes time and we wish we had more of it :( As Temptations has previously mentioned, we are seriously considering the idea of creating a collaborative environment to get additional help. This is not easy since our internal network is used for many other projects.
We are very eager to get some of the re-written parts of Evernight pushed out for beta testing so you can see the results of our efforts.
Glaxono
/lurk/
Eagerly waiting...
xD
-------Original Message-------
NoRegrets wrote: Cost really depends on bandwidth requirements... The platform set up is negligible in cost and time. I'm certain I can get best cost from him for bandwidth if it is something you all are interested in pursuing.
My buddy owns an ISP. We do a LOT of virtual machines, run phone banks and from 2 to 1000 virtual desktops in several different iterations. A fairly massive amount of computational power and extremely hispeed stuff, sits on an ATT backbone.
-------Original Message-------
BlueSky wrote: Cloud $$$?
-------Original Message-------
NoRegrets wrote: Cloud storage and the ability to create secure project sites abound... No need to keep the test environment local... I like the idea of keeping some 24 hour ticking and not moving completely away from it. That is part of the draw, something I do not have to keep focus on in order to be effective (well, my last few games would be "mildly effective") ... I'd love to have a steady base to look at building a phone app for EN. That would be the way IMNSHO to get the game back out there. Focus on stability and playability and pretty it up a little then get an app out there...
-------Original Message-------
glaxono wrote:
I'd like to comment on this:
<< [i]Making changes to the existing game code is like trying to change the stew recipe, after the stew has already been cooked.[/i]>>
Temptations and I are NOT tryng to "make changes". We are re-writing the game.
- Game Logic and rules are being removed from the "over cooked" spaghetti UI and isolated for further usage and manipulation. This has been done on significant parts of the game already.
- The SQL stored procedures are being reviewed and updated if necessary. We have added addtional data tables for better game tracking and stats, player profiles, and UI support.
- The Dlls are being re-wriiten. One biggie has already been attempted and was successful. Yeah!
- the list goes on....
This process takes time and we wish we had more of it :( As Temptations has previously mentioned, we are seriously considering the idea of creating a collaborative environment to get additional help. This is not easy since our internal network is used for many other projects.
We are very eager to get some of the re-written parts of Evernight pushed out for beta testing so you can see the results of our efforts.
Glaxono
ditto
(0)(0) > \___/
-------Original Message-------
ducky004 wrote: /lurk/
Eagerly waiting...
xD
-------Original Message-------
NoRegrets wrote: Cost really depends on bandwidth requirements... The platform set up is negligible in cost and time. I'm certain I can get best cost from him for bandwidth if it is something you all are interested in pursuing.
My buddy owns an ISP. We do a LOT of virtual machines, run phone banks and from 2 to 1000 virtual desktops in several different iterations. A fairly massive amount of computational power and extremely hispeed stuff, sits on an ATT backbone.
-------Original Message-------
BlueSky wrote: Cloud $$$?
-------Original Message-------
NoRegrets wrote: Cloud storage and the ability to create secure project sites abound... No need to keep the test environment local... I like the idea of keeping some 24 hour ticking and not moving completely away from it. That is part of the draw, something I do not have to keep focus on in order to be effective (well, my last few games would be "mildly effective") ... I'd love to have a steady base to look at building a phone app for EN. That would be the way IMNSHO to get the game back out there. Focus on stability and playability and pretty it up a little then get an app out there...
-------Original Message-------
glaxono wrote:
I'd like to comment on this:
<< [i]Making changes to the existing game code is like trying to change the stew recipe, after the stew has already been cooked.[/i]>>
Temptations and I are NOT tryng to "make changes". We are re-writing the game.
- Game Logic and rules are being removed from the "over cooked" spaghetti UI and isolated for further usage and manipulation. This has been done on significant parts of the game already.
- The SQL stored procedures are being reviewed and updated if necessary. We have added addtional data tables for better game tracking and stats, player profiles, and UI support.
- The Dlls are being re-wriiten. One biggie has already been attempted and was successful. Yeah!
- the list goes on....
This process takes time and we wish we had more of it :( As Temptations has previously mentioned, we are seriously considering the idea of creating a collaborative environment to get additional help. This is not easy since our internal network is used for many other projects.
We are very eager to get some of the re-written parts of Evernight pushed out for beta testing so you can see the results of our efforts.
Glaxono
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